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Slayer of Cliffracers
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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Location: Gateshead, England.
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 Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: Zeitgeist II is out |
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I watched Zeitgeist II here on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gKX9TWRyfs
I thought that it was pretty sensible compared to the last Zeitgeist, less religious and more political, although of course politics is the enemy.
It's rather funny though that they deny any role for politics, going on and on about technology. And then end up drawing a glaring attention to the real question, if all the technology exists and can be installed, why isn't it installed.
To which the answer is of course politics. But they won't admit it. 
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SirZap
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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have you seen he video money as debt?
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Slayer of Cliffracers
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SirZap wrote: | | have you seen he video money as debt? |
I know all about money's dirty secrets.
The flip side however, is by being paid to the banks in interest, the money ceases essentially to be debt and becomes 'debt-free'. So the banks money isn't made up.
Also if you declare bankruptcy, what little money you have you have now ripped from the bank's debt-web.
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juicejuffer
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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Location: Sitting on the same rising/sun conjunction as Abraham Lincoln
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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What are you talking about Slayer the whole thing is about politics as well as ecomonics and their right technology is the thing to solve most the problems yes we need the right ecomomic and political struture to back the funding and promoting of the technology but there right in the end its technology. The saddam part made me laugh, they could push a Taurus so they had to kill him. Of course Saddam isn't a saint but then I don't think anyone could survie in this current world being a total selfless angel.
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juicejuffer
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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Location: Sitting on the same rising/sun conjunction as Abraham Lincoln
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Probelm is if technology is advanced too fast more people lose their jobs. Granted in a resource based ecomony instead of monetary people don't need to make money but then who decides how the resources are distributed? With out money crime wouldn't existed is laugable money isn't what a criminal wants if they hold you at gun point the money is a means to an end in order to buy money for their drug addiction or in order to get the money they need to keep their home. The only way the venus project would work is to set up the most totalitarian system the world has ever seen. Based on intellectual dictatorship rather then monetary corruption but I'm sorry there has and always will be a group who thinks they should be top dog. I do agree people believe things religious, political with out question because it makes them feel comfortable and less unsure of the universe when its this uncertainity which, leads to questioning and true learning.
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juicejuffer
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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Location: Sitting on the same rising/sun conjunction as Abraham Lincoln
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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There are three zodiac signs I think which, influence this human need for power at least more so then the others they are :
leo: Thinking one knows best for everyone one and their brother better then what they do.
Capricorn: Being concerned with doing something only because of the social status and monetary gain it will gain them. As well as an obsessive need to have one's way for really no real reason but to have one's way.
Scorpio: Somewhat similar to the above sign but less practical and more about total psychological control. The darker side of the sign at least is what I'm describing.
Another other sign for influencing human cruelty or corruption is believe it or not :
Aquarius: Yes in general humanitarian but the dark side of the sign believes the needs of the many outway the needs of the few to a radical extent.
Taurus: Is another sign (the dark side) for influencing human cruelty more then many of the other signs due to its selfish/gullutionus self indulgence.
The ruler of any of these signs or a main planet in one of these signs afflicted can often show either great selfishness, power trips, or radical beliefs depending on the signs involved.
Just having one of these signs as a main planet is a factor, especially if its strongly placed. Just look at Scorpio rising, sun in leo Napoleon if you don't believe me.
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juicejuffer
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:03 am Post subject: |
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The darker side of Capricorn and Aquarius are quite prone to cruelty due to their rejection of feelings. Capricorn rejects individual feelings and devalues them if they go againt Capricorn's personal agenda.
Aquarius rejects individual feelings in order to forcus on the so called greater good. The aspects give clues if a person might lean towards the darker sides of these signs.
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Slayer of Cliffracers
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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Location: Gateshead, England.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| juicejuffer wrote: | | What are you talking about Slayer the whole thing is about politics as well as ecomonics and their right technology is the thing to solve most the problems yes we need the right ecomomic and political struture to back the funding and promoting of the technology but there right in the end its technology. The saddam part made me laugh, they could push a Taurus so they had to kill him. Of course Saddam isn't a saint but then I don't think anyone could survie in this current world being a total selfless angel. |
Your comments on Saddam are cynical indeed Juicejuffer  .
No in the end it is politics not technology. The technology needs to be created, merely advancing technologically will not deliver and also the technology has to be maintained. fixed etc.
This requires public organization of a sort, one that isn't negligent and corrupt or else everything falls apart.
That is the side of things they don't like in Venus project, that technology is invariably flawed and imperfect, however sci-fi and awesome a piece of technology might be, it will still go wrong sooner or later.
These glittering technological dreams are ultimately the consequence of a political/economic system and require a political/economic system to mantain or else they will rot away.
| juicejuffer wrote: |
Probelm is if technology is advanced too fast more people lose their jobs. Granted in a resource based ecomony instead of monetary people don't need to make money but then who decides how the resources are distributed? With out money crime wouldn't existed is laugable money isn't what a criminal wants if they hold you at gun point the money is a means to an end in order to buy money for their drug addiction or in order to get the money they need to keep their home. The only way the venus project would work is to set up the most totalitarian system the world has ever seen. Based on intellectual dictatorship rather then monetary corruption but I'm sorry there has and always will be a group who thinks they should be top dog. I do agree people believe things religious, political with out question because it makes them feel comfortable and less unsure of the universe when its this uncertainity which, leads to questioning and true learning. |
Ultimately in such a system it doesn't matter if so and so thinks they are top dog. It doesn't harm anyone else in this system.
What you describe is only a problem however if you are maintaining the present Capitalist system, where people are 'employed'. If people got what they wanted and are only 'obligated' to work, rather than required to be working in order get what they want, then the system could install labour-saving technology to it's heart's content without worrying about unemployment.
Rather than "oh damn I'm unemployed I can do whatever I like", it would be "oh yeah I'm unemployed". The aim is to un-employ as many people as possible and to employ them to this end. Unlike under the Capitalist system, in this system unemployment is desirable, indeed the principle social objective rather than a horror. It is the end and aim of all work.
Essentially work in this system is a social cost borne by people and the gains are collectively enjoyed enjoyed by everyone. The leaders of this system only remain leaders as long as they deliver the goods so to speak and they can only deliver the goods by making people work, but that is a cost so they attempt to minimize said work cost, hence they employ technology to this end.
The distribution problem is easily solved by not giving one person too much power of distribution of everything. If each distributor can only line his pockets with a single kind of good, service or resource (rather than the universal variable of money), then the damage done by corruption is limited.
And because the distributor can be replaced by someone else he essentially must to keep his 'ill-gotten' gains also deliver the same to everyone else. Corruption is a problem, but not a major problem in this system. And as soon as scarcity in a commodity is abolished (which cannot happen under Capitalism where abolition swiftly causes a crash restoring scarcity), then corruption becomes not a problem at all.
But this is where Politics comes in. The only way to establish a Resource economy/Communism is to destroy the existing rulers, their institutions and lay waste to everything they hold sacred. In other words, a period of Revolutionary chaos involving an extreme amount of destruction, both of people and infrastructure, the latter creating a huge amount of scarcity, threatening morale and thus functioning of the newborn system.
As far as *I* am concerned, the ends justify the means. Morally speaking however much death+destruction the process involves is nothing to the death and destruction the system periodically unleashes anyway.
However the problem is how to make sure that the process of birth doesn't end up destroying the system that is being born. It's not so much that a Totalitarian system is required for the system, but that the possibility that the sheer conflict and likely violence involved in creating it will result in a Totalitarian outcome.
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juicejuffer
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well Slayer Taurus is the one sign in and of itself more so then the others you don't mess with. Taurus if I remember correctly is also connected to the aderline gland andTaurus although usually patient if you push hard enought they will push back with 10 times the force.
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Slayer of Cliffracers
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| juicejuffer wrote: |
Aquarius: Yes in general humanitarian but the dark side of the sign believes the needs of the many outway the needs of the few to a radical extent.
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That's Leo not Aquarius which unjustly sacrifices the few for the many.
Aquarius tend to become arrogant elitist that see everyone else as essentially a passive mass of idiots needing to be enlightened by themselves the bearers of intellectual truth. They also tend to overestimate ideas and intellect and underestimate other things.
Like Charles Darwin (wrongly) determined that humans brains increased and got smarter and *then* they got hands. Mind over matter is an Aquarian tendency (and at times weakness) I think.
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juicejuffer
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Kind of like Napoleon?
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juicejuffer
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Then again slayer this is something leo and Aquarius have in common (other then being stubborn), this tendancy to think they know whats best for the masses better then what they do. The difference is leo is authorian/dominering and Aquarius is intellectual/argumantive. Also, this superiority complex takes different forms with Leo in general treating people like children never letting them live their mistakes down or learn from them so they always have to depend on the leo and Aquairus like you said being intellectually elitist.
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juicejuffer
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Case in point about Taurus pushing back ten times harder. I once meet a skinny Taurus girl who was below 5 foot who had a guy harass her and wouldn't stop the guy was like over 6 feet and over 200 pounds. She grabed him in a blind rage and throw him over her shoulders and through a glass door. You don't mess with Taurus.
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abigail
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| I watched zeitgest I & II, I is the most wat6chable, both are too long. In II, for a world of technology You would still need metal, plastic, silicone to make the mashines. |
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Cowfish
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Evening*Star
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Zeitgeist II: "Today’s education produces people for a job instead of teaching people what they need to be taught such as how to solve problems, their personal emotional tools and critical thinking." I would also add to this relational, moral, and sexual education.
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Slayer of Cliffracers
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| juicejuffer wrote: | | Then again slayer this is something leo and Aquarius have in common (other then being stubborn), this tendancy to think they know whats best for the masses better then what they do. The difference is leo is authorian/dominering and Aquarius is intellectual/argumantive. Also, this superiority complex takes different forms with Leo in general treating people like children never letting them live their mistakes down or learn from them so they always have to depend on the leo and Aquairus like you said being intellectually elitist. |
Leo doesn't usually think it knows better than the masses. It is very attuned to what everyone around it is thinking and feeling, too attuned in my opinion often. They compensate for this by gaining positions of social importance and power, because they lack independence of thought the only way they can asset themselves as individuals is by becoming authoritarian leaders.
You if I remember correctly have (several?) Leo planets. Thus you are strongly Leo influenced in a lot of ways.
Aquarius indeed tend to think themselves very superior to social groups and above the concerns of the ignorant masses, but I think they soon tire of the responsibilities of positions of power and ending up becoming mere figureheads for others, as the Aquarius arrogantly sees it's leadership as a sign of it's superiority *over* the group and are annoyed at the constant barrage of demands from the group.
At worst evil Aquarius will begin to consider their power more important than the lives, safety and well-being of the 'unenlightened masses'.
They are oriented to cultivates not material goals in the short-term, but the cultivation of the correct 'consciousness' and will consequently as I said sacrifice the many for the few, these few constituting the 'enlightened' (those who agree with the Aquarius the ultimate enlightened being).
While Leo will tend to seem to water down their beliefs in order to appeal to the masses, gathering them up around themselves and their personal leadership, at the expense of the furthering any wider ideological cause beyond that of "Leo X is our savior".
As a result, when a powerful Aquarius leader retires or dies there is a capable leader to replace them because the Aquarius leader sees their role as educational, whilst Leos by making themselves the indispensable 'Hive-Mind' causes a leadership vacuum by removing themselves or being removed from the scene.
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